Friday, August 29, 2008

δw = PdV where P is Pressure and V is VIOLENCE

I had an interesting thought while Corey was walking me back to my car earlier in the week. We had been discussing different fallacies in the idea of Creationism when the First Law of Thermodynamics came up. (If you're not familiar with the Laws of Thermodynamics, I wont hold it against you. Just go learn it.) Creationists often use the Second Law of Thermodynamics to show the improbability of the universe's natural self-creation (or the Big Bang Model). Of course, no scientists find controversy between the Laws of Thermodynamics and the Big Bang. Only creationists see a problem.

What I don't understand is how Creationists can be so quick to spit out laws of entropy, but fail to acknowledge that their Creator "Theory" breaks the First Law of Thermodynamics and, of course, the Law of Conservation of Energy. If we define God as omnipotent, then he must be able to create the universe. But if God created the universe, surely he used energy to do so. And according to Thermodynamics, who God's followers so love, God must have transmitted some of his own energy into those creations. Because energy cannot be created or destroyed, it had to have simply changed from the energy of God's power to the physical universe itself. It took his energy to create the Earth for us to live on, the Sun to give us warmth, and the Moon and stars as pretty ornaments for us to look at. This means God LOSES some of his energy as he creates because it is transferred to what he creates.

This means God cannot have created the universe and be omnipotent and the same time. An all-powerful God would only be "kind of" powerful if he could not retain the exact amount of energy before, while and after creating the universe. But we know that the First Law of Thermodynamics states that this IS NOT possible.

In fact, the idea of a God Creator breaks every single law of Thermodynamics, including conservation, entropy, equilibrium, even absolute zero (I might do a blog post on God and Absolute Zero later on). So is it completely hypocritical that Creationists use Laws of Thermodynamics as "cannon fodder" against Rationalists while ignoring how the laws pertain to their own beliefs? It's not possible to deny this.

If I hear a Creationist ramble about the Laws of Physics EVER, I might be tempted to bash them in the face with a Geiger Counter.

But I'll resist. I hope.


Alyse said...

maybe Omnipotent in the sense that he controls all the laws the govern the universe.

I generally find it really hard to compare science and religion, because while the human race has made wonderful scientific theories, there's still a lot that we don't know. I think the maybe the Big Bang might be true, but there's a lot of evidence disproving it.

What argument do creationists use against the 2nd law? It seems that the big bang would support the 2nd law, not be used to disprove. Maybe you are listening to some uneducated christians.

All things aside, if god created the universe, it was probably before all the 'laws' were set into place. It's really hard to say that these laws are universally true in all cases throughout time, but maybe they only started after the universe was created, there by even though god DID use energy to create the universe, or big bang, or whatever, the laws of thermo didn't apply because he didn't make them :-)

Miss Infidel said...

In comment to above post:

As Richard Dawkins would say "Well, isn't that just too easy?" (in regards to god being outside the laws of physics)

I would agree that the majority of creationists who use the thermodynamics argument aren't well educated on secular information, but it sounds like they've been reading their church pamphlets.

I guess my question would be to you that if god was around before the laws were set into place, then what is he made of? Before t=0, no energy or matter existed. Many would argue that God is made of energy, but we know this is not true as none of the four fundamental forces of the universe existed yet.

Evolowe said...

The first law of thermodynamics stated that energy can’t be created or destroyed. So energy must has always been here, so lets suggest for the sake of the argument that god at least at part is an infant supply of energy. That would make sense because god is all powerful. This implies that energy can be infant. What is the explanation for the energy that was present at the beginning of the universe?
There are just 2 possibilities: It’s a supernatural or it’s an unknown natural explanation.
The Christians will know state that this energy comes from god specifically the Christian god.
But this is the Question that human being has been asking about a lot of things since human beings starting asking questions. What is lightning? Why do mothers give birth? Why does the sun rise? Why people get sick? Why we only use a certain percentage of our brains? There are millions of questions we can ask and all of them could simply rushed of with god did it. But that doesn’t mean that this explanation is correct. In fact time after time after time the answer has been an unknown natural explanation that eventually becomes known.
I will never understand primitive thoughts, because before true science and facts, there was just belief and faith. For all the holes they had, “the gaps” the filled in with god. Once science denounce it they tried to interpret science, but not truly knowing all the details of physics. Of all the different gods out there, around the number of 4,200 different religion, only one chooses to argue the law of thermodynamics.